Those T-Heavies are redicoulus. But the issue is most players have these vehicles they weren't exclusive or timed events. According to the complaint, Germany suffers terribly under the weight of uptiers. panzer ii ausf l luchs mit bildern panzer panzer ii. He will command the rules of engagement and the battleground not you. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. You can pen various parts of the of them and can with apcr. For special purposes I still have my Ju-288 with its two SC1600 bombs. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. Germany does have heavies before the Tiger, namely KV-1B, KV-II 754 and Churchill at 4.0 and KV-1C at 4.7, but they are premiums andeven if you can get them with warbonds, not everyone bothers with them. Now, lets address the imagined problems of Germany so that the real ones can be identified and addressed! .50 CALs are overpreforming by a mile. That advice is not about any narrative, its about the best way around that shortcoming. Originally posted by kamikazi21358: Originally posted by theGoddes: brits are nerfed into the ground. for example to prove what i said u can see that with panther A br reduce to 5.7 germany teams improved a lot, because panthers have much better gun handling than tigers. I think it's important to call out that there are a lot of different aspects to mobility. (small note, i forgot the T__ has cast armor, it's frontal protection is actually 190mm at it's weakest. Not sure why, maybe it's a new bug or there's a spall shield I'm unaware of, but it's really annoying. With things as they are with just a little more zeal in pursuing the objectives, Germany would do just fine. Weaponry, While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. Armor. Next is allied CAS which gets thrown out as another massive problem Germany faces, but it really shouldn't be since Germany has objectively the best CAS in the game all the way up to 8.0. You have the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long as you don't hit the tracks. However there comes the real germany suffers thing. If he sees that you do dare to cap he will just rush back because he has the speed. And the Tiger 2s consistently bounce shells they are by no means slouches and have a thicker hull than the T series which will say no to most rounds that fly at it outside of apds which can be angled to avoid for the most part and or heat. The funny part is that you say thatbut you give absolutely no reasonfor why you saythat. I am losing a little over half my team (if my team is made up of mainly germans, which it generally is, otherwise about a quarter leave) before the 3 minute . @Loongsheepwell, except that you can just lolpen the entire front with APDS. The first two points can be resolved by reforming the German tree to not have the jumps that it has and by requiring players to unlock more vehicles to progress to such higher BRs (as other nations have). That's where the Panther gets stuck due to bad low speed mobility. If you haven't noticed I'm implying being one/two steps ahead. The armor is nowhere never Tiger II H level. 1. It is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of understanding that having a whole bunch of people brand new out of 3.0 in 5.X is a problem. pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. Germany continues to suffer in War Thunder! Which he can only do if he knows where you are, you can't flank what you can't see now can you. But like I've said, this is not an issue affecting only Germany. Thus, links were forged between the crime of public nuisance and the tort of private nuisance at an early stage in the development of the common law. There are things the T series better and the game tends to play to those advantages mord than to the tiger 2s but the differences between the two aren't much trust me on that one. Still a lot more intuitive. The Brit needs 2-3 good hits to kill the KT, while the KT just takes one hit to blow the Cent up with huge APHE. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44-100. You make it sound like the T series doesn't have to aim for weak points also. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming, Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? You cant carry against so many players. MidCii; Jul . 5. You can use it, for the Tiger I lovers the way to go. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? And the T series has a thick turret but the tiger 2 has a better hull. It's not a perfect strategy as it weakens the cheeks, but I've had a lot of smart american players turn their turret at the last second for an easy bounce. Apds still has a low damage output. I have said quite the opposite honestly. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. Denying that problem only makes it worse. That is basically telling your enemy "I am here" and to commit assisted suicide. You don't need to win the match in the first 5 minutes of the game, late games are a thing. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions.And BTW i also played all three major nations. If the team melts, the team melts. I'm also fine with the T30 at 6.7 since it has such a long reload, but the T34 really ought to be 7.0 just because of how ridiculous it is against 5.7s in a downtier. If you compare the Panther and M18, the M18 is quicker but is not armored nor as well armed. The Tiger II's gun is stabilized but it doesn't bounce. It doesn't cover up that much of a hull you can shoot it reasonably well. That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. Grant was buried on 4 December 1995 at the cemetery opposite his mansion, with the funeral service held at St Peter and St Paul's Church, Hailsham, East Sussex. Has 3 crew and carousel, so it doesn't fit survivability meta and it's armor can be penned by 9.0 premiums. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. I lately used my FW190 D13 with one 500kg bomb as Fighter/Ground Attacker. I would just shoot breech, then driver/engine, and then if whatever I was shooting was still alive I would just wittle down it's last crew with the excellent reload and lolpen APDS. If anyone has any genuine strategy for killing T__ I'm all ears. Are king tigers unplayable? King Tigers are too slow and obvious to really bother with going for caps, and their armor isn't reliable enough to use as a spearhead for an attack. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be at that point. . On 11/02/2020 at 01:49, Stuhlfleisch said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers!". And that's just fighting american 6.7 with other 6.7s good luck in 5.7 vehicles when you get uptiered, lol. Get comfy and ambush them,you said it yourself he has five options give him a sixth one he forgot, two places they'll never look behind themselves or above themselves or I guess threeif you count beingfar away. Only salt and betrayal.Thanks for watching!Subscribe for decent content next time (hopefully). Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. And I'll give you the T29 it was worthy of 7.0 but if your gonna sit here and argue the T34/30 are suddenly worthy of 7.0 you have a biased opinion. With this you will keep your RPM high and get moving fast. The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. ..and I'm not talking about the vehicles, they're OK-ish. Two world wars and two pandemics are just a few of the many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years. T92, T114 are the most common culprits but yes there are more. The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? Rare, but happens from time to time Few wants to go for the objectives (which is more understandable when you consider the caps' terrible earnings) but fewer want to accept the consequences of not going for them. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. T-80U only fixes armor (although weakspots veeerrry preminent), slightly better HP/T (still -10 kph reverse though), and a slightly better reload (6.5s but still slightly slower than other 120mms). But to argue the tiger 2 has a worse hull than the T series is a joke. Theres no reason why being put this tank agains opponents which pens it easy and having slow rate of fire to fight them. Sidenote: chuckling at all the silly "confused" reactions haters are giving. Contrary to popular belief there is more then one way to exploit this knowledge. Which is situational and works only on several maps. Example, an M18 is freaking fast compared to a Panther or any other German Tank of that tier. Also hull down does not stop long 88 or 100mm from penetrating you and kill or wipe out your turret crew. To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. Powered by Invision Community. Really? His portfolio includes five books and several hundred historical articles.". What makes teams such an acute problem? Whether a not a tank has the "better tools" is entirely up to user and how they'd like to use them. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? Interesting thing about predicting the predictable itshighly accurate. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. Most German fighters can either take a 500kg bomb or a 250kg bomb. While light vehicles can rush about in cities, they're balanced in the cities by the same hard cover they benefit from. Also .50 cals have too much pen, loosing light tanks and all sorts of AA vehicles to those is no fun, especially if other nation just have to rely on their main guns. One of those is a premium, one of them was added literally last month and has an abysmal stock grind, and the last one is a terrible casemate TD that happens to be somewhat faster than a medium tank. But there almost no such maps in the game. Bouncing for when we are talking about the gun of Hellcat (especially the 90mm), Marder and Archer. AMX-13 10k REPAIR SILVER? Welcome to r/Warthunder. You don't want that then that is fine, noted. Stop placing artificial nerfs on German vehicles and weapons; Mk 103s should have the same accuracy as allied autocannons, Panther APCR should have the historical ~260mm of pen instead of the laughable 228mm of pen in-game, and so on. Those things are a really easy kill as long as you see them first. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. Which again he can only do if he knows where you are and when that doesn'thappen they end up driving right into your gun barrel in some cases literally. Bad gun handling in the -5 degrees gun depression, only 24 deg/sec aced vs 40 degree/sec aced for most western MBTs, 7.1s reload, slower than 120mm which is 6.36 or 6 seconds. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. By observation, I guess, a lot of players dont do this. the Jumboturret. Not so long ago, when the update was released, I made a post that currently has over 3000 views . Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. For anyone who has ever played War Thunder and certainly for those who have perused the forums, the line Germany suffers! is probably something youve heard before. Which is why its more rewarding when they pull it off as they had to put more effort into making it work and that's what people need nowadays a challenge. Let me repeat that. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? According to this complaint, Germanys mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. What plans do you have to try and tackle this issue? While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. The second was the Persian Gulf War era Challenger 1, which was the British army's main battle tank (MBT) from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s. I have to say that this thread's OP is pretty much THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. So, lets dive in to look at some of the most common claims: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. That's a big if there, an M18 still isn't fast enough to out run a gun so its unlikely for them to survive long enough to retreat out of an ambushand flank you, heck even half of them that do make it out get blown up latertrying to flank you as they may become careless with hatred. Allied CAS is absolutely by far and away superior, only the 37mm armed Bf-110G is superior to allied cas, it's actually really good. Same procedure as with Panthers. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. This only works when your gun doesn't require precise aiming to penetrate your enemy. In that experience, I have found that German vehicles mobility is adequate and generally competitive with these peers--despite all of the derisive talk you hear otherwise. Slow speed handling of the Panther is also very bad, making it a bad brawler in CQC situations where you most likely would have to turn with the traverse to get on target in that tank. AMX-13 GETS UPTIERED 6.7? Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. And no I wasn't talking about the swingfire I mean the 7.7 german raketenjagdpanzer 2 literally fires the same missiles as the STRV.81 (which also has a gun) and yet sits a whole BR higher for some reason. Mobility: The complaint: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. 1. jagdtiger having stupidly high Br at 7.3 arcade. If your going to pull the hvars are the best thing out their it shows how little you know. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. Some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the problems seriously talked about and dealt with--quite sad. The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). Many German players will often hang back and camp (which can be good, if done in moderation--Germany gets above average exchange rates this way) but critically, problems arise when these players never do move up. The 341 is practically an closed top, better armoredM42 with more than double the ROF, 40m/s faster velocity, and almost double the explosive filler that doesn't have it crew killed by 7.62s and doesn't explode from a stray bullet hitting it's exposed ammo. But he still requires to go through your turret so mixing it up and not sitting is what's the best option to proceed at those ranges. Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. Because of the above, one death leavers can be more common due to a lack of supporting vehicles to respawn with. But it will go as well as it would if American tanks went up to 6.7. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. Panther speedcross country on flat terrain is42km/h. Ferdi is 7.0 and I did managed 17 kills a match. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. Hell no, you can still get kills if you have a decent team and play smart. In that experience, I have found that. With the (by my understanding) more recent ai changes in air realistic battles the ai is now invulerable to most guns, this also led to a lack of engagement in the maps that were made to adapt the changes, are there plans to change the current player-a.i. Panthers has not too much problems in their brs. Yes but this is should be fixed for once and for all. Their is a perfect blend of fast paced numbers (Warcurse, Escalation) and slower, more groove-oriented thrash in the vein of Pantera's Cowboys From Hell, in particular Destroy What Destroys You. Yes, but just pointing out that "Japanese bias" has been used before. And the stock ammo of the german M48A2C is the same as the US/Chinese M48A1, but somehow the US/Chinese M48A1 is at a higher BR. Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. another thing that hurts germany 5.3-6.7 to much its the fact that GAIJIN thinks that low armor = low br, thx to this we have tank like m41 / pt76 / m50 / t92 / ru-251 etc., tanks that can deal w/o problem other tanks like t54 but in game they are figthing vs tiger 1. So in short up until br 6.7 theres nothing much. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. That ammo should not be stock! 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. Just an observation maybe its just me. Yeah why wouldn't it? The turret is 200mm thick unless you shoot the edges. Just hide behind a hill or a tree and wait till the panther finally arrives, and then shoot that big juicy target in the side (i do that all the time, the best vehicle to kill king tigers is actually the M56 Scorpion). The F-4F Phantom II is a rank VII German jet fighter with a battle rating of 11.0 (AB/RB/SB). There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. The rest including pz iv and pz 3 is pretty balanced in my opinion. Long range eliminations tend to be how I foil most of the cappers I kill. And it is this knowledge that will the panther driver often stop from advancing beyond certain points on the map, because he thinks: " There is probably a M18 on the enemy team and based on my experience and knowledge of the map I know that beyong this point there is a high chance that the M18 is somewhere on the edge of the map behind a hill and is waiting till I leave my cover. And I've never had issues with the breach on a T series unless I've hit the outside of it or its well past 500 meters which is were the 88 will struggle you can still go through the hull of it but need to be more cautious as a whole. His vocals stand in contrast with the somewhat polished production. Ok, so you don't agree that it is easier to flank with small and fast vehicles? Plus there are only few maps thatfavor this strategy. Be always aware of this. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the []ASU 85. How to use automatic gear optimal to get the Panther moving: If you move on flat or rising terrain, roads are an exception, use the 2nd auto gear. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). As if the game and the race to the capture point ends the moment they get to it and then it just sits there waiting for the Panther to roll in. But Germany has little to complain about compared to the French. It depends; the objectives can be just as deadly for lightweights too. Turret is 200mm at it's weakest and will bounce if the enemy angles or is at long range. Is a panther really a good vehicle for flanking? All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. It's as hard to shoot a the turret of a tiger 2 as it is to shoot a T series turret. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. Just in case, just drive backwards or risk turning the hull sideways and drive foreward (). He just needs to find the right way to flank you. I mean this thing has a chance to kill KT frontally by spamming around the turret ring and it can take out the gun barrel within 2-3 shots.When the M41 of a German player is destroyed, well you can go panther which is not the best when it comes to maneuvering, or perhaps a puma which can get shredded by .50 CAL. And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. 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